Erica Overmeer
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Swantje Grundler is a curator and reseracher.. etc, etc The Artists' Book series «Landscape Files» was created around the same time and deals with news images which look at (that examine/examining) territorial conflicts from around the world. A few selected fleeting news images become the main thing (focal point), isolated and preserved between two book covers. For the 2024 exhibition, you expanded the project from seven to seventeen books. (Would you like to describe the field, the field of tension, of your work at the time in more detail?) Could you describe the context of your work at the time in more detail?
Looking at your 2010 work «Landscape Files» and the accompanying text «I Love the Sight of Landscape in Use», which describes a scene that could have taken place in the same location as the photograph, I wondered if you intended to add to the ambiguity of that moment?
Was the section of a (the) time continuum too narrow for you? Have you ever thought about making a (working with) video? Or is the text an elegant form of making-of (behind-the-scenes) reportage?
EO: I'm particularly interested in a form of (poetic or pictoral) narrative incident beyond film or reportage. At the time, I was still trying to grasp the general essence of my work as a whole. It was a way of exploring and narrowing down the topics that interested me. It was also a means of (literally) describing the broader "field" within which I was operating. Rather than a single overarching moment or defining 'event', there was an observational condensation. I think roaming around and then writing about what I experienced and observed was part of that process.
SG: The Artists' Book series «Landscape Files» was created around the same time and deals with news images which look at (that examine/examining) territorial conflicts from around the world. A few selected fleeting news images become the main thing (focal point), isolated and preserved between two book covers. For the 2024 exhibition, you expanded the project from seven to seventeen books. (Would you like to describe the field, the field of tension, of your work at the time in more detail?) Could you describe the context of your work at the time in more detail?
EO: The various approaches informed each other. (While) At the time, as I was working on «New Territory», I also started looking at everyday media depictions of our surroundings more closely. Print newspapers were still prevalent then (were still a thing). In particular, I noticed that the visual coverage of 'landscape' and 'surroundings,' it always came down (focused on) to resistance, uprising, revolt, and public persecution—all phenomena that find their specific expression in public space, and an undeniable spatial context.
As I was specifically examining (lookinting into/at) international press coverage, (I found that) these depictions consistently revolved around extreme violence and notions of 'foreignness' and territory. This resonated deeply with the subjects I was investigating at the time. It became (all) very political—and obviously still is.
When you invited me to the exhibition and asked me to show (present) the existing «Landscape Files», I wanted to bring the project up to date and continue the conversation into the present (day). By removing these images from their original context and omitting captions, both the focus and ambiguity of these (the) images become clearer. They develop a narrative of their own.
Q3 SG: Was there a change (a change of perception and representation) between 2010 and 2024 in the form and topics of the newspaper reports from which you extracted your images for "Landscape Files"?
Our (our contemporary understanding) of our environment is often located in built-up areas, in cities, rather than on borders or in (actual) landscapes. You are interested in urbanism, but also in sociological space. You have been exploring this topic since your studies at the Rietveld Academy in Amsterdam. What were your experiences along the way?
Q3 SG Edited: Did the form and topics of the newspaper reports from which you extracted your images for 'Landscape Files' change between 2010 and 2024?
Our contemporary understanding of our environment is often located in built-up areas and cities rather than on borders or in actual landscapes. You are interested in urbanism and sociological space. You have been exploring this topic since your studies at the Rietveld Academy in Amsterdam. What experiences have you had along the way?
EO: Actually, that's two—or even three—questions! To start with the first one: Yes, absolutely. It's fascinating to see how news coverage reveals something about underlying assumptions(, priorities) and preoccupations, and these have changed significantly. Although 'landscape' is still treated (covered) as a predominantly territorial matter, the focus has shifted (is now more on) to what is done to these landscapes or and) what they are exposed to. But now in ways that are 'closer to home,' in contrast to earlier coverage of social-spatial conflicts that mainly occurred in 'foreign' territories outside the realm of domestic experience.
(Most striking of all is that,) What is most striking is that in updated media reporting and general depictions, women still have no place in these apparently xenophobic and hostile environments unless they are being warned about or exposed to male violence and abuse. The underlying assumption is, this is basically a landscape created by and for men—a very specific kind of men—in both experience and depiction.
However, the focus has also become increasingly centred on the so-called 'invaders' of 'our' landscapes, notably through migration, as well as the supposed consequences of fossil extraction and climate change—which all seem to be equally newsworthy. City scapes being flooded, occupied, drowned, and burned, make for compelling images (narratives).
SG: Our (our contemporary understanding) of our environment is often located in built-up areas, in cities, rather than on borders (3) or in (actual) landscapes. You are interested in urbanism (and), but also in sociological space.
EO: From my perspective, it's ultimately not about urbanism per se, but about our contemporary understanding of space and spatial dynamics in general. Our (in my) understanding (of) space is a social construct. Space as we experience it is inherently social, narrated (and) shaped through social interaction at every level of existence and mediation. My work aims to reveal the ideological assumptions embedded in everyday images and experiences.
Q5 SG: You have been exploring this topic since your studies at the Rietveld Academy in Amsterdam. What were your experiences along the way? What experiences have you had along the way?
A5 EO: Regarding my background, I don't know how to answer that directly. More generally, in my experience there seems to be a lack of discourse, curriculum, expertise, and interest surrounding larger social-spatial dynamics beyond the obvious and spectacular.
(Even when discussing our surroundings, so-called 'identity politics' often gets foregrounded (takes center stage). While this subject might be easier to grasp, it falls short of addressing the larger issues at hand when considered in all its complexity: Who gets to be where? Who decides? What exactly do we consider 'our' surroundings? What is the discourse?)
(But,) Ultimately, I'm interested in tension. To me, our shared surroundings are where the biggest tensions lie. I have always reacted to my environment and used it as a catalyst—an incentive to think with and through our surroundings as an idea, an experience, (an assumption, an objective, an afterthought) an imagination, and a reality – through my own work and the work of others.
Alternative
Ultimately, though, I'm interested in tension. To me, the biggest tensions lie in our shared surroundings. I have always reacted to my environment and used it as a catalyst—an incentive to think about and experience our surroundings as ideas, experiences, assumptions, imaginations, and realities. And I want to find compelling and mesmerizing images for that.
Q6 Spannungen machen Unsichtbares sichtbar. Sie führen manchmal auch zu Widerspruch, Revolte, Protest. Eine kraftvolle Entladung hat Dich als Kind beeindruckt: die Prinz-Claus-Krawalle 1966 in Amsterdam. Das Thema formt eine Arbeit von 2022 – «Protest or Not to Protest». Warum geht es Dir?
Tensions make the invisible visible. They sometimes also lead to opposition, (conflict) revolt, protest. A powerful outburst made an impression on you as a child: the Prince Claus riots in Amsterdam in 1966. The theme forms the basis of a work from 2022 – “Protest or Not to Protest.” Why is this important to you?
Q6 SG: Tensions make the invisible visible. They sometimes also lead to contradiction, revolt, protest. A powerful struggle made an impression on you as a child: recurring riots in Amsterdam in the late '60s and early '70s. This experience informs the basis of a 2021 publication, "Protest or Not to Protest". Why is this important to you?
Q6 /A7 There are many experiences that shaped me politically, but questions that "Protest or Not to Protest" comes back to the public sphere and the politics of its representation. This project isn't tied to one specific event—it's more about the specifics of the time, and again, how people connect or disconnect, how they engage in the public sphere through protest, and how that engagement changes and shapes our perception of this sphere (these where the questions that I was interested in).
What was very interesting is that while we were working on "Protest or Not to Protest", a wave of protests surged.* This project manifested right in the middle of all that—so these events and developments also informed many of the questions we asked ourselves and each other, and ultimately started to take on a life and discourse of their own.
This had significant consequences—think of the discussions surrounding who gets to represent whom, where, how, and why—even though there currently seems to be a huge backlash and deepening of those struggles underway.
*Just as we were getting started with this project, we were overtaken by real-time events related to the huge public outcry surrounding the murder of George Floyd and the ensuing protests. It deeply informed our thinking and conversations—and it spurred me personally into a deeper questioning of the discourse and language surrounding dissent, and controversial or opposing viewpoints in general.
Provo, Dutch counterculture movement in the mid-1960s that focused on provoking violent responses from authorities using non-violent bait
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provo_(movement)
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kroningsoproer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_coronation_riots
For the 2024 exhibition, you expanded the project from seven to seventeen books. (Would you like to describe the field, the field of tension, of your work at the time in more detail?) Could you describe the context of your work at the time in more detail? Text 2010, link here.